2009-06-21 [All_Most PUNK]: So... do we put something up there?

2009-12-10 [windowframe]: Nah. That would be useful. Crazy idea.

2009-12-10 [All_Most PUNK]: Ah, right, usefulness is wrong :P

2010-03-20 [windowframe]: Should we make a separate review page for comics and mangas?

2010-03-20 [All_Most PUNK]: One for both, I imagine.

2010-03-20 [windowframe]: Srsly? You think they're that different that they need a page each?

2010-03-21 [All_Most PUNK]: No, quite the opposite. One page for both of them together.

2010-03-21 [windowframe]: Righto. I'll prod Hedda to make a separate category on the listy then.

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: I has found it. :P

2011-04-29 [windowframe]: Well done. :P

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: I know. I am so bright. :3 A shining example of America's future.

Anywaaaay... What needs to be done other than the badges, really? o.o And names? Links added at the bottom and?...

2011-04-29 [windowframe]: And that's all I can think of right now. :P

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: Oh. XP Otay. Weeeell, you has badges. :O It's you, phoenix, all_most punk, and...? o.o

2011-04-29 [windowframe]: That's it at the moment. Apparently Akane only wants to help if the pages are ordered alphabetically? :P

2011-04-29 [Alexi Ice]: Me! <3 Silvie is confused (or maybe it's future Akane again) either way though, sign me up ^^

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: I set it up like the Elftown Graphics Group page.

2011-04-29 [windowframe]: I'm not confused, I said 'don't do it alphabetically' and you were like 'kay. It shall be left, then!' :P

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: Why is it different than the graphics group? o.o

2011-04-29 [windowframe]: Wat? X_X

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: I copied/pasted exactly from the elftown graphics group page, and then you changed something? o.o So does the et graphics group needs to be changed?

2011-04-29 [windowframe]: ...I added the banner.

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: But on the graphics group the text is not on top of the banner, but are above the big badge.

2011-04-29 [windowframe]: yeah, I guess so.

2011-04-29 [Akayume]: Should they match, or is it oke that they're different?

2011-04-30 [Akayume]: I love the badge. :D So cute!

2011-04-30 [Alexi Ice]: Ok so I thought I commented on this page, should we put which pages we are in charge of on here?

2011-04-30 [windowframe]: Naaah.

2011-04-30 [Alexi Ice]: So we just work on any of them? Or are we in charge of specific sections but it doesn't matter if anyone knows or not? lol

2011-04-30 [windowframe]: Yes, we are in charge of specific sections. I think maybe just list on the sub-wikis themselves who is in charge of that page. 

2011-05-01 [Alexi Ice]: Can you tell me what sections I'm in charge of so I can put it on watch. Please? ^^

2011-05-01 [Linderel]: *pops in* You should be watching all of them :P *pops back out*

2011-05-26 [Alexi Ice]: Why am I only a trainee' *Cries* Lol. It messes up the format of my badge slot

2011-05-28 [Alexi Ice]: You may write a review about anything that you think at least a few others are interested in reading a review about. It has to be at least as big thing as your village restaurant or a band playing that we can download and listen to. No rating of a single image or poem please! Reviews, not ratings!

This confuses me...>> Should it be;
You may write a review about anything that you think at least a few others are interested in reading a review about. It has to be at least as big thing as your village restaurant or a band playing that we can download and listen to. No review of a single image or poem please!

Why is there a highlighted random sentence at the end?

2011-06-20 [Lord Josmar]: Any ways I could help here?

2011-06-21 [windowframe]: Any particular section you'd want to help with?

2011-06-21 [Lord Josmar]: Which ever one needs the most help, although I do more book reviews then any other review. Although I don't know if the computer games or music one needs any help.

2011-06-21 [Akayume]: _{than :D}

2011-06-21 [Alexi Ice]: Only a few of them are overly busy. If there was one you were more interested than another I'm sure we could find you something to do ^^

2011-06-22 [Lord Josmar]: Well it always seems like the books one is constantly getting reviews along with the manga/comics one so I could help there if you need it. I dont have all of them on watch though so I dont know definitely which is the busiest.

2011-06-27 [windowframe]: We only really need one mod per section (of course, some mods are looking after more than one section at the moment, so there's room for more mods) but since Comics & Manga is Phoenix' only section... :P

2011-06-27 [Alexi Ice]: You can work on Computer games if you like. Believe me, Misc. keeps me verrryyyyy busy!

2011-06-28 [Lord Josmar]: I'll take Computer games if your wanting the help.

2011-06-28 [Mortified Penguin]: Y'know, I could always mod a section...

2011-06-28 [Lord Josmar]: Also, if you want to take one from the two people that have three so it will even out to each with two right now.

2011-06-28 [Alexi Ice]: I don't really need help, was just offering you a section that is kinda busy sometimes ^^

2011-06-28 [Lord Josmar]: Well, either way. I am willing to take on whatever section I am given.

2011-06-28 [Alexi Ice]: Let's see what Silvie says when she logs back on ~

2011-06-28 [Lord Josmar]: kk

*Waits patiently for Silvie*

2011-06-28 [windowframe]: Music & Websites?

2011-06-28 [Mortified Penguin]: And for me? :D

2011-06-28 [Lord Josmar]: Works for me.

2011-07-02 [Thunder Cid]: Is the review feature messed up?

2011-07-02 [windowframe]: Bit more specific?

2011-07-02 [Lord Josmar]: Review seems to be working for me. Just posted one, though I couldn't figure out how to put the photo in.

2011-07-02 [Thunder Cid]: I tried to do a review for music and when I submitted the page was blank. The wiki popped up in my diary and on the page (deleted now), but there was no content :/

2011-07-02 [Lord Josmar]: Hm...Did you copy and paste the review into the two text boxes?

2011-07-02 [Thunder Cid]: I tried to copy paste into the wiki, but again there was nothing :/

2011-07-26 [kians mummy]: one of the bosses have been gone for 18 days, how do we know he is coming back

2011-07-26 [Mortified Penguin]: Well, since he's never not come back, I think we can trust him. He hasn't let us down yet. Besides, he's not going anywhere until the chess tournament is over.

2011-07-26 [kians mummy]: How do you know :)

2011-07-26 [Mortified Penguin]: He told me so?

2011-07-26 [kians mummy]: when

2011-07-26 [Mortified Penguin]: After I asked him.

2011-07-26 [kians mummy]: Well i think in future if a boss is going for a few days then some one else should be put in for part time work whilst that person is away. :)

2011-07-27 [windowframe]: If a boss is gone for a longer period of time then one of the other bosses can easily cover for them. :)

2012-05-16 [Ravenclaw]: What about 50 days?

2012-05-16 [Ravenclaw]: Pixie knows where this is going lol.

2012-05-16 [Mortified Penguin]: 50 days is nothing. The limit is 4000 days.

2012-05-16 [Ravenclaw]: Being gone for that long when you've agreed to preform a service to an online community is irresponcible.

2012-05-16 [Mortified Penguin]: His preformance is lacking a bit, sure, but really though... is it all that irresponcible? What is there that desperately needs to be done around here? And also, there are plenty of others who can do it. Not to mention, he's volunteering his time, this isn't a job that he's getting paid for.

2012-05-16 [Ravenclaw]: No, he's not volnteering his time. Not if he's not preforming the task he was deligated. I was under the impression that council members understand that they have a responcibility to the users and it doesn't matter how small th task is. The fact remains that that user is neglecting their duties and that task should be reasigned. If 4,000 days is the limit, I'm sure no one wants to wait more than 10 for the task to be reassigned.

2012-05-16 [Ravenclaw]: You told me to bring it here in the first place Pixi. Make up your mind.

2012-05-16 [Lord Josmar]: Also the page hasn't been edited for almost a year, unless I read it wrong, not since the last time I edited it for his previous hiatus.

2012-05-17 [Ravenclaw]: Josmar informed me that he's brought the issue up on the reviews group forum. I don't forum. He'll be carrying my torch.

2012-05-17 [windowframe]: Giving the benefit of the doubt is a really good idea sometimes all of the time. Please don't start throwing passive-aggressive "irresponsible" comments around until you know why someone was absent ('cause, you'll feel like a dick if you find out it's because a friend/relative died/war was declared/user's world otherwise fell apart). You could argue if you really wanted that even if that was the case, someone should let us know, but this isn't a paid job, as has been pointed out, and therefore keeping us informed just isn't the priority it would be if our mods were paid. If one of our users takes five weeks longer to recover from open heart surgery than they anticipated, we're not going to shout at them when they get back for not telling us that. All of our crew know that real life is more important. Sorry if that makes you feel that we're all entirely irresponsible and have our priorities backwards, but that's just how we roll. ;)

2012-05-17 [windowframe]: Knowing this, the whole reason we have multiple bosses for stuff like this is so that there are people available to pick up slack if someone suddenly drops out. So I guess, if you want to call anyone irresponsible, it should be us, for not picking up the slack for so long. Criticism duly accepted.

2012-05-17 [Ravenclaw]: There was no cause for that Silverfire. The matter was over, being taken care of elsewhere and I'm happy with that. Now your response causes me to want to validate what I said, which I stand by. I'd be the first to apologize if something truly terrible happened in his/her life. There is no reason to call me passive aggressive for trying to follow the right channels in order to voice my opinion about one of the elftown features I greatly enjoy and utilize. ESPECIALLY when it was a crew member who advised me to do so in the first place.

2012-05-17 [iippo]: Sometimes it is a good idea to think of how you do things, and how it appears to people on the other side. I advised you to come to this page since the Reviews page is commented on a lot - new reviews appear there as automagical comments etc... And I reckoned "one of the people who take care of reviews needs to notice this point about PUNK being away so that they can fix it amongst themselves" since it really is no one else's business, not even mine. Crew are assigned their own stuff to do, so really telling you to comment on this page wasn't my place either and often "wanting to help" is the worst thing to do and this is where I was at fault. And heck, if I'd known how you would go about it, I would have kept my trap shut.

I imagined that you would comment here, saying "All_most PUNK has been gone a long time, is no one taking care of the movie section?" Instead, you said "how about 50 days" (reviving the conversation that was had last year) - which doesn't tell anyone who hasn't been keeping up with the chatter (kept up by Mort and Sammie among other people, part of the reason I was advising you to come over here instead so they wouldn't drown your comment off the page with their never-ending off-topic comments) on Reviews what the hell you are talking about, it just looks... random. Then cue in more chatter from Mort and Sammie and yourself, and the next thing that happens is that another Reviews boss comes in and sees all this chatter on this page that looks like people are taking stabs at someone over something. Never once was PUNK's username or the Movie section mentioned.

Basically, no communication happened here. At all.

2012-05-17 [windowframe]: Since you already admitted that you weren't in the forum, I figured I'd give you the courtesy of some form of answer here that you *could* see. I'm sorry that my wish to let you know you're comments weren't being entirely ignored was apparently ruder than ignoring your comments. XD 

I'm glad you'd apologise, but my philosophy is that it's just better not to stick the foot in the mouth in the first place, rather than doing it and apologising later. :P As iippo pointed out, I wasn't calling you passive aggressive for speaking, I was calling you out on one specific passive aggressive comment. i.e. how you were doing it, not what you were doing.

This was all so fail it's just funny.

2012-05-17 [kians mummy]: I know I am not crew but please can you stop bitching on official wikis as it makes the crew look bad, if you have a problem I am sure SilverFire wouldn't mind a message saying what is wrong.

Now I suggest a crew member deletes these messages and keep it through pm's or the forum, as this isn't a place to have arguments to let everyone see. :)

2012-05-17 [windowframe]: Fearing that someone's complaints make the crew look bad is a really baaad reason to ask them to stop complaining. If their complaint is legitimate, maybe we *should* look bad (and if it's not, it'll be them who looks bad anyway :P) It kinda' makes it sound like the crew's reputation is more important than what we actually do - 'who cares if we're actually acting like dicks as long as people *think* we're saints'.

Comment deletion is a tool which should be used sparingly - to delete spam comments that may push important comments of the page, or to delete abuse. We don't delete comments just because we don't like them. :)

I understand you have the best intentions, but sometimes public places are very much the best place to have discussions or disagreements. There's nothing to be ashamed of in disagreements, though if it's making you uncomfortable, I would suggest to stop reading it. :)

2012-05-17 [Mortified Penguin]: I wasn't chattering. :(

2012-05-17 [Ravenclaw]: I'll just know better from now on that when you try to get something addressed, you might as well not bother.

2012-05-18 [Evolution X]: I know I really can't say much, I've only been looking at this a little, but could I just say that there is some validation to the claim of the behaviour being inadequate? Certainly people need time off, but if they are put in charge of certain aspects of the site, they should make fail-safes. If a page is passworded, then they could certainly share that password with a trusted member of the same page, which would then pick up the slack when they take a time off. It would make things a lot easier, and giving one person the keys knowing that no one else can access them seems rather... ill planned.

Complaints are valid, if a little emotionally charged and badly phrased at times. Yes the cut off time is around 4,000 days but surely there should be an implemented fail safe if a person should disappear? Fifty days is a rather extended period and there is no telling when a person might return. I think the complaint was not directly at the person here, but at the lack of planning should they disappear for their own reason, so it isn't a selfish claim of "they should be here for me" but a proclamation of how unprepared people seemed for these circumstances.

2012-05-18 [iippo]: Evo, Silvie said exactly that: it's a fair comment, the other bosses should have picked up the slack and that the criticism was accepted. Oh and there is no limit, 4000 days is not a limit (protip: don't take anything Mort says seriously, ever :P Or at least don't quote him in any situation). If that point had been made clearly and professionally ("Hey, I noticed [All_Most PUNK] has been gone a long time and the movie-section is getting neglected...") there would have been a clearer and more professional answer a la "ah, thanks, we'll get someone on that".

Ravenclaw: I'm sad that you feel that you learnt that lesson, instead of the "how to communicate effectively (with people who don't know me)" -lesson :/ In Finnish the saying goes "the forest answers back the way you shout to it"... That's kind of an important lesson too... :/

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: You know what Iippo, I didn't make this out to be the attack it turned into. I was trying to bring up an issue I thought was important and yeah maybe I could have been a little more direct about it, (my intention was to go about it conversationally) but rather than actually dealing with and discussing the issue, everyone attacked like I was waving some kind of war banner. It seems to me that when I pointed out someone asleep at the wheel, the forest got pretty effin' defensive. Which is understandable considering that irresponsibility I was talking about lays more on the shoulders of the people who let it go on unchecked, rather than the person who's been gone all this time.

From what I understand speaking with other people who've dealt with this group, I'm just chasing my tail. You people seem to thrive on confrontation and no one will ever consider what they were wrong in how they've handled this. What really hacks me off is that there's no real authority figure to report it to. Not that it would do any good any way. I could go tattle to Hedda, but that won't get us anywhere. I just hope next time someone has an issue you all decide to treat them a little differently.

2012-05-18 [iippo]: o.O It seems that you and I are just reading this entire thing totally different. From how I see it, you and Mort and Sammie were having a jolly old time on Reviews just having a chat. Then you mentioned something that I thought "hey that point should be made in a situation other than a jolly chat, because it's a good point" so I suggested you mention it here. You didn't, instead you guys continued the jolly chat here, with a bit of a mean stab-like stuff going on like people are being irresponsible. Then Silvie replied to your point (which she had to piece together from a forum posting and the reviews page), explaining as best as she could and pointing out that the stabs were un-called for, but that the criticism was a good point. Then you reiterated and played me like a card, which I didn't appreciate so much. So I added my point as neutrally as I could, trying to explain why there might be a problem. Mort and Sammie said something kinda irrelevant, Silvie replied to Sam, you said you were disappointed, Evo gave their two cents, and I replied to Evo and you.

All the way through this I saw no aggression. I know I wasn't feeling aggressive or typing aggressive and I assumed that no one else was either. o.O How did you see it? What was the attack? Did you find Silvie's reply defensive? Because I found it only trying to explain and reply to the comments about "people are irresponsible" (which still was generally aimed at no one since no names were mentioned). You brought up the issue and it was discussed. Why is this a failure (in anything other than conciseness and clarity of communication)? o.O
(And I'm dead serious here, I would really like to understand how you are feeling and what you are thinking, because it clearly isn't the same that I'm thinking and feeling about this all :/ )

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: I'm done. If you don't read the blatant aggression I read, then I don't know what to say.

Anything else that was mentioned on another page shouldn't even really matter. It led me here where I thought the issue would be taken seriously. As a matter of fact the last thing I said, other than thanking you for the link was: "Maybe I should mention it there... I don't wanna cause anything though..." Well we can all see that didn't happen. Instead as I tried to bring the matter up, Mort jumped in making assumptions as Mort does and knocked everything out of joint. We discussed, Josmar told me elsewhere that he brought it up in the forum and the matter was closed. Silvie, who I understand now has a very hostile attitude decided to step in and it all went downhill from there.

I feel like the issue was completely ignored in order to make me look like the bad guy for even trying to say anything. I've been a loyal et member for almost nine years and I feel like I've been completely disrespected because someone got their panties in a twist.

2012-05-18 [iippo]: :/ That doesn't help me understand at all.

The matter would have taken seriously here if it had been presented seriously :C

Silvie was the one Josmar brought it up to in the first place (since the other reviews bosses, Alexi, Punk and Phoenix haven't logged in yesterday) so she stepped in to address the issue in the public wiki page like it should be done. She did it in two parts, one replying to the slightly nasty-toned comments about people being irresponsible (and even that comment had a winking smiley in it - does the winking smiley mean nothing anymore?;) ) and the other part saying "yes, we other bosses should have handled this."

And I still don't think you do look like the bad guy. o.O Why would it? Because this was a conversation, a debate at points, but that doesn't make it a fight since everyone voices their opinion in a debate in a normal way. No one was called names, no one raised their voice... :/


(For anyone reading this all later, it'll help understand that Sammie deleted her own comments and therefore it looks like people are sometimes talking to themselves)

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: You don't have to call people names or post in caps to come off as aggressive. Yes I said an absence that long was irresponsible, when you've agreed to preform a service. I don't see how posting my opinion concerning that came off as "nasty-toned". It's honest and I stand by it. If I treated one of my games the way some things get treated around here, I wouldn't have any players to participate.

The fact remains that there was nothing for Silvie to to address. The issue was over as far as I was concerned. Calling me passive aggressive for stating what I believed to be a fact, felt accusatory. Especially after I considered the matter closed.

I really want this to be over though. I'm sick of arguing about it, but I do greatly appreciate your efforts to understand the situation.

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: I feel like I'm getting more blame than I deserve, which makes me want to act out and do something stupid so that I can live up to all the blame I'm receiving and not let anyone (especially iippo) down.

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: *slowly pulls out a pack of fireworks and a lighter*

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: *...and a condom. For safety.*

2012-05-18 [iippo]: Aww, you deserve all the blame you get, Trollfriend :)

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: /me runs away crying, leaving his asterisks behind

2012-05-18 [iippo]: :O Someone might step on those and hurt their foot!

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: Anyway, now that I've calmed Raven's rage, solved all the problems, and saved the day yet again, I'll take both my medal and my leave. Good day, madame! *rips off Sammie's weave and walks out*

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: Mort, in no way shape, form, or fashion, have or could you calm my rage.

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: Wait... I pulled a stunt on your commissions page?

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: I edited because I thought it was in bad taste to mention, but yes. Frankly I've not liked you sense, but this isn't the time or place for that discussion.

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: B-but... what did I do...?!

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: I think it's best if we discussed it elsewhere.

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: Let's discuss it on your submissions page!

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: No. If it's that important to you, message me.

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: But personal messages are so gaaaaay though. :\

2012-05-18 [kians mummy]: I like you Silvie and see where your coming from, [Ravenclaw] she is trying to apolorgise for the crews action, you should be thanking her, not being angry at her.

Silvie is not an agressive person at all, she has a good head on her shoulders and she can sometimes go out of her depth to help people, if you have a problem, report it to the Guards or [Hedda] as this is just getting beyond the joke now.

We all only tried to help you with your questions, and you have done nothing but been very negative to us all, when there is no need, I am not even crew on here and yet I still tried to help you, so be a bit more greatful that all these people are wanting to help you, instead of passing them off as being hostile or agressive as it is quite the opposite.

2012-05-18 [Evolution X]: I believe it was an unfortunate case of "if I'm having an argument everything sounds as if it's angrily defying me." What was not desired to be inflamatory become such because the person was expecting an attack upon themselves. I think that Silverfire handled it very well, but misunderstandings and circumstances and other people interjecting made it seem like a much more hostile environment inside of Ravenclaw's mind.

2012-05-18 [kians mummy]: +1 on that

2012-05-18 [Mortified Penguin]: To be fair, Silvie is pretty much always hostile and rude. It's just how fascists are.

"be a bit more greatful that all these people are wanting to help you, instead of passing them off as being hostile or agressive"

Really, Sammie? Really? You're lecturing someone else about this?

2012-05-18 [Ravenclaw]: Maybe it was just me, but I still stand by what I said. I still think it was a very aggressive way to handle things and I think very little has been accomplished. So far every person I've gone to for advice about this feels the same way I do. I might as well try pulling my own teeth than accomplish anything. What really irks me is that it's impossible to put it to rest because everyone seems to want the last word. Including me, but I don't really care any more. I received some very awesome news today and there's no reason in spoiling that by arguing something that will never get resolved. 

2012-05-18 [kians mummy]: +1 Again

2012-05-19 [iippo]: When people press the Google +1 button on the wikipage, does it make a comment? o.O *does not have GoogleFacebook*

2012-05-19 [kians mummy]: +1 means I agreee. :)

2012-05-24 [Alexi Ice]: Well now that the page is updated (which I admit I said I would do) you can take me off the bossess list. Thank you ^^

2012-05-24 [kians mummy]: If any of the bosses need a hand, be sure to let me know as I'm good with wikis, thanks. :)

2013-10-23 [Flisky]: Hey, guys...I think the reviews need to be updated and counted. (I have 8, and am listed as 2, because some haven't been added. And I know that's just mine, there are probably others.)